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You say, "we should all be online tonight"
"do you waant to ant to make a start Bazin_Guest says, "dave here by the way"
on this
You say, "do you want to make a start on this"
Bazin_Guest says, "go for it"
"well I th phone d barb who should be online and gave her the basic a idea
You say, "well I phoned barb who should be online and gave her the basic idea"
"I have put toghr ether a wee b site that has a subn = mit form so people can expressinte rest.
You say, "I have put together a web site that has a submit form so people can ex pressinterest."
"I dont have any real text yetBazin_Guest says, "Iam still a little uncertain wh at the content of the thing is is it just about a different way of presenting so mething"
"the concepr t is to look a take screen based work and presetn ent it for some kind of critic al apprai ias aisal
You say, "I dont have any real text yet"the concept is to take screen based work and present it for some kind of critical appraisal"
"there are so many w questions taht hat arise for rom this kind of work once it has make dBa zin_Guest says, "is thew criticism directed at the fact that it is screen based"
e the ra transition to hard copy
Bazin_Guest says, "or is it about the content of the material"
You say, "there are so many questions that arise from this kind of work once it has made the transition to hard copy"
"it is about the formal aspecBazin_Guest says, "why would you want to make a har d copy"
ts ot of the image an s it relects the content
"this isBazin_Guest says, "would you take stills from a film and discuss them as photos"
then in the reYou say, "it is about the formal aspects of the image as it relec ts the content "
lation to thMeta_Guest says, "pasted to the wall is disposable and cheap"
e way we view art
You say, "this is then in the relation to the way we view art"
Bazin_Guest says, "it does smell of a formalist concern"
"it is a fg hard no to say what criterai iaa do you use from or judging the cr screen based workBaz in_Guest says, " ithought we had better at least discuss this"
You say, "it is hard to say what criteria do you use for judging the screen base d work"
"is there some basis c s criterai ioa a that you all ys Morph_Guest has arrived.
ues se for the placement of images on thesc c screBazin_Guest says, "if you pull the wo rk off screen and put it into another kind of installation wyou have changed the nature of the work"
en
\You say, "is there some basic criteria that you all use for the placement of im ages on the screen"
Morph_Guest says, "hi guys, its me from the sunshine coast"
"hi
"Bazin_Guest says, "hi barb"
yes you have chI don't understand that.
nage anvb ged the work onlyt by freezing t it to give it allow for it to be read
You say, "yes you have chanvged the work only by freezing it to give allow for i t to be read"
Meta_Guest says, "for a start there is less hisrory both literally and phillosop hically "
Bazin_Guest says, " are we then talking about the screen work as a form of commu nication"
"yes communicatioMorph_Guest says, "or as a work in its own right"
n
You say, "yes communication"
Bazin_Guest says, "but the hard copy as a thing"
"the c screen dup mp is a part of the work
You say, "the screen dump is a part of the work"
Meta_Guest says, "we may also need to classify screen images as a method of maki ng sense of it "
"weBazin_Guest says, " if you randomly capture images from Tv the context change s"
need Morph_Guest says, "don't you think that by differentiating between the sre en work and hard copy that you are perhaps thinking in terms that are no longer relevant. we are in a process of trethinking"
to develop a premise onm line now
You say, "we need to develop a premise online now"
Morph_Guest says, "yes"
"the hard copy is as Bazin_Guest says, "sorry for the irrelevant thinking there chaps and chapesses"
though you were giving someone a evidence of you r work for some t reason
You say, "the hard copy is as though you were giving someone evidence of your wo rk for some reason"
Bazin_Guest says, " I think it is important to have a rationale for doing this"
"well any offers of a rationale
You say, "well any offers of a rationale"
Meta_Guest says, "the eveidence is ephemiral"
"we c need to dBazin_Guest says, " the idea of capturing evidence is a start"
efine some of the basic starting poiBazin_Guest says, " like tapping the phone l ine"
nts
You say, "we need to define some of the basic starting points"
Morph_Guest says, "it is just that "notions of starting points which are not end points"
"we havc e tak lked for a long time about screenb = based woMorph_Guest says, "I think Derrida's notion of the ever deferred signifier is quite relevant in this contex t"
rk and this would be an oppertunity to explore it publicc ally
You say, "we have talked for a long time about screen based work and this would be an oppertunity to explore it publically"
Morph_Guest says, "it's like looking up the dictionary...it keeps opening out an d out and that then relates to the notion of the hypertext"
Meta_Guest says, "but that can't be all there is to it it says something quite c oncrete and different from other mediums i'm assuming"
"the from ormaBazin_Guest says, "what is the relationship between the hard copy and the electronic screen"
l language does it applyMorph_Guest says, "yes, i think we are talking about per formativity "
"does it work iYou say, "the formal language does it apply "
n a hard copy realm
"should it only exist on You say, "does it work in a hard copy realm"
screen
Bazin_Guest says, "is one a mem"who chooses the images to signify what"
You say, "should it only exist on screen"
"we can ste et up thje e deBazin_Guest says, "would you change the screen if you knew it was to be displayed a s a hard copy"
bate
Meta_Guest says, "it coyulk ou could aoriginate form the screen"
You say, "we can set up the debate"
Morph_Guest says, ""the formal language has to be modified since strictly speaki ng formalism is built on the premise of what operates within a formatand this fo rmat keeps shifting and permutating"
"yes tBazin_Guest says, "not in a hard copy it doesn't"
there seems to stillb l be areas that are about compostionMorph_Guest says, "yes, but we are talking about two different framing devices "
that occur again and again
You say, "yet there seems to still be areas that are about compostion that occur again and again"
"frame within a frame
You say, "frame within a frame"
Bazin_Guest says, " you can't put a still image on the wall and talk about it sh ifting"
"lie ke we Bazin_Guest says, " should we not therefore have projections"
la taalk about cMorph_Guest says, "if it is in slide form, of course you can...the carousel goes round"
indy sherman
You say, "like we ltaalk about cindy sherman"
"so could b we define a r premise or should e we go on like this for a whicl le
You say, "so could we define a premise or should we go on like this for a while"
Bazin_Guest says, "but she doesn't make the films then freeze them"
"somw o w e of the work is not about motion some is interactive
You say, "some of the work is not about motion some is interactive"
Bazin_Guest says, "it is more practical than that, thinking about how the instal lation could work"
"with out the premiMorph_Guest says, "but they are suggestive of t"
se there is not oiBazin_Guest says, "Pica is a strange space"
installation
You say, "with out the premise there is no oinstallation"
"is that part of the dilema Bazin_Guest says, "what are we into illustration"
ofw working in this media um
You say, "is that part of the dilema of working in this medium"
Bazin_Guest says, " we don't need a premise and then finding a way of supporting it"
"we ned so ed somethjin ing to build on Bazin_Guest says, "we just need to think how the different fors of communication relate to each other"
You say, "we need something to build on "
Morph_Guest says, "there is a sense in which screen_dumps are not about producin g meaning. i go back to the rodowick article and his argument of thshift from si gnification to the figural....i think this may be a starting point for thinking about what our premise might be"
"so is that another starting point hwo ow different forms communicate e tion rea late to e ach other
You say, "so is that another starting point how different forms communication re late to each other"
Morph_Guest says, "the communication model is very much part of structuralist an d poststructuralist thinking and i think we have moved beyond that"
"Bazin_Guest says, "" well we seem to be taking one communication mode and trans ferring it into another aesthetic realm"
ok then what do you want as the basis
You say, "ok then what do you want as the basis"
Bazin_Guest says, "does this tranference allow us to look at it in other ways"
"we are looking to not just put up digital wok rl k of artists without some kind of critBazin_Guest says, "Obviuosly the Cindy sherman film stills are an example"
ical dimension
You say, "we are looking to not just put up digital work of artists without some kind of critical dimension "
"so what are t is the ground for this critical demi imension
You say, "so what is the ground for this critical dimension"
Bazin_Guest says, "if we change the scale and context of the screen image we see it in another context altogether"
"we can keep it as a screem s n size
You say, "we can keep it as screen size"
Bazin_Guest says, "why"
Morph_Guest says, ""i have been thinking about how C.S. Peire's semiotic model c an be adapted for thinking critically about digital work. ""
"what model is that
You say, "what model is that"
"we have things already that are problems
You say, "we have things already that are problems"
"trh he ex can be about tryui ing tro o addrs ess some of these
You say, "the ex can be about trying to address some of these"
Morph_Guest says, "He proposes three different types of signs - the iconic, the symbolic and the indexical...the first two are self evident and fit very much wi th Saussure's model of linguistic semiotics. The third - the indexical is very s pecific to visual languages. it is where there is a direct causal link between t he referent and the signifier...in other words the materiality of the making or practice and how its trace is found in the work itself."
"well we ne syho hould define some of these Morph_Guest says, "i think it is very impor tant and have started to make a comparison between how the index works in, say p ainting and drawing, and how it works in digital imaging"
things bu y a cert tain timf e f frame
You say, "well we should define some of these things by a certain timeframe"
Morph_Guest says, "sorry?"
"there is the beginnings of things here so should we take some of them and work them so we get a starting point
You say, "there is the beginnings of things here so should we take some of them and work them so we get a starting point"
"tMorph_Guest says, "in painting etc there is very often a real concern with the index, whereas often in digital work, the index...ie say the hand of photoshop. ...is effaced. in screen_dumps it seems to me that the 'index' starts to re-asse rt itself in interesting ways."
here is a m number of practical things we can also Bazin_Guest [A[C[C[D6[C[C[Dthis is the problem putting the by the process of editing
look ar t in this time
You say, "there is a number of practical things we can also look at in this time "
"what are we Morph_Guest says, "pardon, i don't quite folow?"
"what are we going d to do about asking peo arts ist and sorting the work that will be d isplayed
You say, "what "what are we going to do about asking artist and sorting the work that will be displayed"
"is it localo national international
"do we askYou say, "is it local national international"
artists or do we just gather inters estedBazin_Guest says, "can i get something c larified on a practilcal level, are we jojnt curating a show by selecting from s ubnitted wepsites"
par artist from the website
Morph_Guest says, "don't you think we should sort out the basic premise before d eviating into the nuts and bolts of how it happens?"
You say, "do we ask artists or do we just gather interested artist from the webs ite"
"well what a is it do we get a basic premise and how do we ag g agree to that thorug rogu ugh t his mediaum
You say, "well what is it do we get a basic premise and how do we agree to that through this mediaum"
"can we vote
Bazin_Guest says, " how can you when it is so up in the air" it sounds like writ ing the press releas firstdo you need the premise to collect around an idea"
You say, "can we vote"
"how can we bringit doe wn to ground
You say, "how can we bringit down to ground"
Morph_Guest says, "yes, you do need a premise before you go out and ask people t o submit else how the hell do they know the ground on which they are writing"
"what if Bazin_Guest says, "the screen dumps and hard copies have already sructu red the thing without a premise"
barb took some of this work and put Morph_Guest says, "explain please"
it in Bazin_Guest says, "what is the connecting priciple"
to sme ome form of a premise theMorph_Guest says, "that is what i am asking"
n we would have somethiBazin_Guest says, "is there a conceptual connection"
ng to deal with
Bazin_Guest says, "otherwise it is like mail art"
You say, "what if barb took some of this work and put it in to some form of a pr emise then we would have something to deal with"
Bazin_Guest says, "but what is this work"
"this work is the text from tonight
You say, "this work is the text from tonight"
Morph_Guest says, "yes i think there is with Peirce...sorry i'm a bit one eyed t onight,but i think i am on to something that actually can deal with screen dumps and hard copies"
Morph_Guest says, "ok, but you are going to have to send me some screen dumps co s till yesterday i hadn't heard of them, let alone beable to get them."
Bazin_Guest says, "I have no problem with the format but there has to be a conne ction between that"
Bazin_Guest says, "and who or what will be included"
"with a mac you press aap pBazin_Guest says, "are we interested in similar gruops o r people intersted in the communication possibitilities of the medium"
ple key and the sho o ift key and the nuber 3 aBazin_Guest says, "rather than artist s web sites"
nd you get the whole sceen saveon on to your hard drive
Morph_Guest says, "if we are interested in the communication possibilities of th e media, then we need to be talking about how people 'read' such images"
You say, "with a mac you press apple key and the shift key and the nuber 3 and y ou get the whole sceen save on to your hard drive"
"we could be interess sted in digity al imagery
You say, "we could be interested in digital imagery"
Bazin_Guest says, "I know that but what does that signify you can have programs that let you capture anything on screen"
Morph_Guest says, "dear paul, i know that, you told me yesterday...but i want so me different examples..what makes the difference say between what i would dump a nd what you would dump"
Bazin_Guest says, " exactly"
Bazin_Guest says, " this is a lot about editing"
Bazin_Guest says, "and who selects"
"weMorph_Guest says, "about selection, yes"
are going through the same ground
"who will selevcYou say, "we are going through the same ground"
t what will be Bazin_Guest says, "that is why it is equally possible to capture images without aslking for invitations"
select what will we ask the artists to send
You say, "who will selevt what will be select what will we ask the artists to se nd"
Bazin_Guest says, "or are we keen on the networking"
Morph_Guest says, "i just wouldn't want it to look like atravelling camera showl ikewhen someone gives out a whole lot of cameras and gets people to take photos and send in the results. that would be a waste oftime"
Bazin_Guest says, "I agree"
"you make it what you want
You say, "you make it what you want"
Morph_Guest says, "does that make it a free-for-all?"
Bazin_Guest says, " you know the kind of show where everyone uses technology wit h no connecting conceptual thread- like a painting show with still lifes landsca pea etc"
"we degin fien ne what we want
"thats why I thinkYou say, "we define what we want"
we need a premise
You say, "thats why I think we need a premise"
"ther e seems ogf to be a fear r of Bazin_Guest says, "I am interested in finding narre ative links in thing without neceI hat the word premise"
somekind of exMorph_Guest says, "and then we must know what that is...i agree... back to the premise"
hin bn iton ion that we are not in contrl ol of
Bazin_Guest says, "I mean I think the word premise isn't very inspiring"
You say, "there seems to be a fear of somekind of exhibition that we are not in control of"
"premise, rationale .r treatiese seBazin_Guest says, "absolutely the opposite for me"
whatever
You say, "premise, rationale .treatise whatever"
Morph_Guest says, "no, i have no fear of that, but i don't want a hotpotch eithe r"
Bazin_Guest says, "theme concept"
"conceptualBazin_Guest says, "antirationale"
Morph_Guest says, "perhaps it is a question that frames the show"
frame work
You say, "conceptual frame work"
Bazin_Guest says, " it all comes back to the selection and editing within a conc eptual framework"
"ok but that editing is o go part of the whole p (ore= pe remise)
Bazin_Guest says, " that could be about the transparency and lack of transparenc y in the ways of presentation"
You say, "ok but that editing is part of the whole (premise)"
Bazin_Guest says, " that is why we don't just want to make an aesthetic meal out of it"
"Bazin_Guest says, " you know frame some good screenpics"
I dont want to do anyting hing like jusBazin_Guest says, " I like the idea of using real bad images from amateur sites"
t r frmae ame good c screen pics that Bazin_Guest says, " or commercial sites"
is what I dont understand what we are talking about
You say, "I dont want to do anything like just frame good screen pics that is wh at I dont understand what we are talking about"
"the screen has been part of or discussions for ner ear r arBazin_Guest says, " I would prefer to cjhange the scale"
ly two years whi y would wo e want to do someting hing that didnt address some of the si Bazin_Guest says, "the grid of small pics is a bit hackneyed"
issues wi e have discuv io overed
\You say, "the screen has been part of or discussions for nearly two years why w ould we want to do something that didnt address some of the issues we have disco vered"
Bazin_Guest says, " I thought we were"
Not "not when we make comments abnout out ex of Bazin_Guest says, " transparency, the gap betwen the image and the screen. its all there"
Meta_Guest says, "the gap between image and material"
Bazin_Guest says, " good one"
good screenp pics
I don't understand that.
Bazin_Guest says, " thats why examining the physical difference betweeb the two could be interestng"
"Bazin_Guest says, " the screen, the projection , the hard copy"
Bazin_Guest says, " the back lit image, the front projection and the photo"
Bazin_Guest says, " you need toi change the context to reveal"
Bazin_Guest says, " the commonality"
Bazin_Guest says, " and the difference"
"change contec xt how2
You say, ""change context how2"
Bazin_Guest says, " what has this to do with perception as well"
"should we set up an email to each other so we can develop this pre rem
"then st se et a time frame to work to
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